Lake George Park Commission
23 August 2005
Ticonderoga Town Center
Bruce E. Young, Chair
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Joan A. Robertson
Margaret M. Stewart
John A. Pettica, Jr.
John C. McDonald, Jr.
Roger H. Phinney
(Denise Sheehan, DEC
Thomas W. Hall,
COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: None absent
COMMISSION STAFF PRESENT: Michael P. White, Executive
Lt. Joseph H. Schneider,
Director Law Enforcement
Roger Smith, Conservation
Operations Supervisor I
J. Thomas Wardell, Director
Peggy Stevens, Principal
Michelle D. Way, Keyboard
Andrea L. Maranville,
Director of Governmental &
COMMISSION COUNSEL PRESENT: Martin Auffredou
Mary Louise Coleman
Jacqueline Phillips Murray
Gayle A. Hall
Item #1 - Introductions, Roll Call, Minutes of Meeting
The 336th meeting of the Lake George Park Commission was called to
order by Chairman Young at 10:00 a.m. and the roll was taken.
Mr. Young said that the minutes of the previous meeting were
distributed in advance of this meeting to Commission members for their
review. He said that the minutes of the previous meeting will not
be accepted until the next Commission meeting due to some last minute
Item #2 - Project Review - Public Comments on Pending
The Chair explained Project Review procedures. He said that the
first portion of the Project Review is for people either for or against
the project to express their comments. He said that the second
session is an open discussion among Commission members to arrive at a
decision. He said that normally the only time during the second
portion where there would be public participation would be if there is
a need for clarification or additional information on an issue.
Bruce Young thanked Robert Dedrick for inviting the Lake George Park
Commission to hold their Commission meeting in Ticonderoga.
Robert Dedrick said he was on the Marina Patrol for 10 years and he
said that the Lake George Park Commission is one of the most
professional agencies he has ever known. He thanked the Lake
George Park Commission for coming to the Ticonderoga Town Center.
Matter of Stormwater Management Application, Town of Fort Ann, County
of Washington – #5326-26-01
Jacqueline Phillips Murray, attorney for Nextel Partners and Randall
and Cindy Hajeck spoke on behalf of the project. She briefly
described the project plans. She said that the project is to install a
wireless communications facility that is intended to serve areas in the
Town of Fort Ann along the eastern shore of Lake George as well as
areas in Bolton Landing and Diamond Point along the western shore of
She said the facility is very uniquely sited. She said it is not
on a ridge line and the site is a 9 ½ acre parcel that is
heavily wooded. She said there are numerous large white pine
trees ranging from 100 feet to 114 feet. She said the 104 foot
simulated pine tree facility should fit in very well amongst the other
trees. Ms. Phillips Murray said there will be a vegetated
foreground and background - there will not be a silhouette of the
facility against the sky line.
Ms. Phillips Murray said that the project has already gone through a
rigorous environmental review by the Adirondack Park Agency and a
permit was issued on July 8, 2005. She said during that review
the Adirondack Park Agency concluded that the project will have no
undue adverse impact on the Parks resources included. In that
review was a review of the Parks water resources and stormwater runoff.
Ms. Phillips Murray said the area of disturbance is less than 1
acre. She said that this has been confirmed in the report and
also confirmed by their engineer using autocad, a software tool
which is generally accepted in the industry. She said the access
driveway will be approximately 1100 feet long, none of which will be
paved and only 250 feet of which will be permanent. Ms. Phillips
Murray said the balance of the access driveway will be re-seeded after
construction so that it can re-vegetate and blend back into its natural
Ms. Phillips Murray said in terms of impervious surfaces there will be
one 9 foot by 12 foot concrete pad within a 1505 square foot fenced
compound area and one 10 foot by 20 foot pad as well as a 7 foot
diameter concrete foundation for the facility. She said there
will be no other impervious surfaces.
Linda Stancliffe, engineer for Nextel Partners, speaking on behalf of
the project said this design manages the increased stormwater through
infiltration in a series of swales, detention basins and ponds to meet
or exceed the expectations of the Lake George Park Commission
regulations and that of the Adirondack Park Agency. It does this
by taking the increased stormwater from the proposed development and
collects it either through detention basins or conveys it through a
swale into other detention basins and wet ponds and ultimately outlets
it into existing wetlands that are on the site. It follows
through the wetlands and into a culvert which is then emptied into the
Lake George Basin.
Bruce Young noted that John Pettica has recused himself from the
subject application via letter which he had received earlier
today. Mr. Pettica excused himself from the table at this time.
Linda Stancliffe said that the disturbance is less than 1 acre and she
said they meet or exceed the Lake George Park Commission stormwater
regulations for a major project and that of the Adirondack Park Agency.
Chairman Young asked if anyone else wanted to speak for the
project. There was no response. He asked if anyone wanted
to speak against the project.
Bridget Paris spoke against the project. She said that she is an
adjacent property owner. She said her family is appalled by this
project. She said she believes this project is for
political reasons only. She said her family has enjoyed the peace
and tranquility of the land.
Ms. Paris said she is able to bike, hike and boat right in her
yard. She said she is afraid this project will destroy the land
back there behind her home. She said there is wetlands, wildlife
and wilderness that make the backwoods their home and this project
would only force them away so that future generations would never be
able to experience this wonder.
Ms. Paris said she hopes that this side of the lake doesn’t start to
look like the southern side of the lake. Bridget Paris said too
many times projects, both land and homes, go unsupervised. “Where
is the APA when we need them?”, said Bridget Paris. She said she
always thought they were supposed to protect our wilderness.
Michael Barcy spoke against the project. He said that he and his
wife, Judy Barcy, live across the street from the project area.
Michael and Judy Barcy said that they have concerns regarding the
wetlands and how the water will flow. Mr. Barcy is worried that
sediment from the project area will run down onto his property and down
into the lake. Mr. Barcy presented photographs to the Commission.
Chris Navitsky, Lake George Waterkeeper, spoke against the
project. Mr. Navitsky said he submitted a letter of comment to
the Commission which he will summarize and he said he has some
additional comments to add.
Mr. Navitsky said the applicant isn’t using infiltration but they are
using wet ponds which the Lake George Park Commission does not have any
design standards or regulations for. Mr. Navitsky said that these
plans should be reviewed by DEC because they do have design standards
for wet ponds.
Chris Navitsky also made mention that the area of disturbance looks
like it is going to be over one acre which will then require Nextel to
get a permit from the Department of Environmental Conservation.
Kim Bender spoke against the project and urged the Commission to take
the advice and rely on the work that Chris Navitsky has done on the
Kim Bender spoke of a cell tower that was proposed in the same area a
while back that had to be withdrawn because of the adverse effects on
Ms. Bender reported that Nextel has already brought in their
construction equipment prematurely. She said that they used
private property and state land to get their equipment on site.
Ms. Bender made note that there are several other sites that would be
suitable for this project.
Jeanette Nadeau spoke against the project. Mrs. Nadeau referred
to a letter while speaking against the project (attached). She
said that the construction of this new roadway will absolutely cause
undue adverse impacts on adjoining land uses due to threats of flooding
and ecological destruction.
Mrs. Nadeau spoke of the problems that will likely occur with the
approval of this project such as the flow of water towards her home and
into the stream behind her home and eventually in to Barber Bay.
She said the flow of water will most likely contain a large amount of
sedimentation that will cause the bay to ultimately be in need of
Scott Lorey, Legislative Director for the Adirondack Council, spoke
against the project. Mr. Lorey said that this project should be
denied based on the poor site location and the fact that the stormwater
run off will affect adjacent property owners and will have an impact on
Gayle Hall, Fort Ann Town Supervisor, said the Town of Fort Ann remains
stead-fast in its opposition to the placement of the cellular tower in
Pilot Knob. She said that the Town denied the Nextel application
originally based on substantial evidence and stormwater issues which
were of great concern for the Town.
Gayle Hall said that according to the evidence presented at the
Adirondack Park Agency hearing the disturbance of land will be over one
acre which in turn will require a permit from the Department of
Gayle Hall mentioned alternative sites for the proposed cell tower.
Bruce Young asked if there were any further comments. There was
no response so Chairman Young asked Nextel if they had any further
Jacqueline Phillips Murray said she would like to clarify a couple of
things. Ms. Phillips Murray said that she wanted to point out
that at the APA hearing alternative sites were discussed and they found
that there was no better site then this one.
Ms. Phillips Murray said that this project is smaller than many of the
other single family homes that exist in this area.
Chairman Young asked the Commissioners if they had any questions for
Maggie Stewart asked about ponds 2 and 3 she said they look as if they
are 1/8 of an inch of overflowing.
Linda Stancliffe said that the ponds are designed for two
purposes. One of the purposes is to store the ten year volume and
the other is to control the 25 year peak runoff. Linda Stancliffe
said that a storm event normally occurs over 24 hours and it peaks at a
certain time, usually around the 12 hour mark. Ms. Stancliffe
said that the peak is portrayed in cubic feet per second. In the
case of stormwater management an area is created where the peak is
controlled over time so that instead of peaking high at 15 it will peak
at 12 when it flows out of the pond.
Joan asked about the area where the ponds will be. She said that
when she went on the site visit she actually saw the depressions where
the wet ponds will be. She asked if the ponds will be more
extensive or deeper. Joan asked if there will be a lot of
excavation to make these ponds so they do carry the 25 year storm event.
Ms. Stancliffe said that yes there is excavation that will occur in
order to create the ponds. She said they have designed the
stormwater management plan through swales and ponds. She said
they have done on site soil testing by digging deep test holes and
performing perculation tests. She said they have also done a
geotechnical bore at the site of the proposed tower. She said
that bore went down 16 feet and they did not hit groundwater.
She said the testing they did earlier with the back hoe indicated that
they had groundwater at different elevations, she said the topography
of the site changes. She said all of the information is contained
in the report that was submitted to the Lake George Park Commission.
Bruce Young asked about servicing the tower after it is complete.
Ms. Stancliffe said that the technician will service the site once a
month, by foot. They said this is the reason why there will be
250 feet of driveway so that there is a parking area for the technician.
Roger Phinney asked about the gravel road.
Ms. Stancliffe said that the stormwater modeling that was done has the
road modeled as a gravel road not as being re-vegetated.
Joan Robertson asked the Nextel Representatives if the tower was to
become obsolete would it be returned back to its natural state.
Jacqueline Phillips Murray said that yes it would be restored back to
it’s natural state. She said that Nextel also has a maintenance
agreement with the Adirondack Park Agency as well as the Lake George
A discussion regarding the maintenance plan between the Lake George
Park Commission and Nextel Partners continued among the Commission
Michael P. White, Executive Director of the Commission, said “what we
are suggesting, if the Commission approves a permit, that there be an
agreement between the Commission and Nextel that governs this long-term
maintenance activity, that the agreement be incorporated into the
permit which will have a construction-like cycle and that those
documents be filed with the County Clerk records for the property so
that any subsequent owners coming in would be aware of that.”
“But we would have an agreement with the partners in this application
that would govern that schedule of activity” said Michael White.
Martin Auffredou said that the agreement would also call for financial
security to be in place to assure that the maintenance does take place.
Jacqueline Phillips Murray said that the Adirondack Park Agency has
also required that Nextel to provide a maintenance agreement to
them. She said there are actually two agencies who will oversee
the project (the Lake George Park Commission and the Adirondack Park
Martin asked how long Nextel expects the construction phase to last.
Jacqueline Phillips Murray said she expects the construction phase to
last roughly 6 to 8 weeks. She said the project is relatively
straight forward and all of the pieces are prefabricated. There
will be no blasting involved in the project.
Thomas Hall asked why Nextel chose not to use an infiltration system.
Linda Stancliffe said they chose not to use an infiltration system
because the soil is type D soil. She said that type D soils have
the worst infiltration rate. She said they do provide
infiltration in part of the basin but they do have groundwater that was
evident during the on-site investigation which was close to grade
elevation so they used wet ponds as part of their design.
There was a question regarding the need for additional permitting from
the Department of Environmental Conservation because the disturbance
may exceed one acre.
Tom Wardell said that the our standards require that the volume of run
off following development and the pollution from that run off shall not
exceed that which existed prior to development so his agreement and
recommendation for approval of the project plans is that the amount of
run off after its controlled in its structures and devices will be
equal to or impact according to the model slightly less than the amount
leaving the site today. He said this is really the summary of
what the Lake George Park Commission regulations require besides all
the technical details.
Tom Wardell said he sent a memo to the Commissioners discussing the
comments received. “He said the issue of the amount of
disturbance could be an issue with the Department of Environmental
Conservation but would have no effect on our standards or our approval
Tom Wardell said that many of the iterations were done at the Lake
George Park Commissions’s recommendation and the Adirondack Park Agency
recommendation for improvements. Tom Wardell said that by
designing the plan using the wet ponds, it has actually caused less
disturbance which was their ultimate goal.
Mr. Wardell said that this project is much smaller than many one family
homes in this area.
Item #3 - Fiscal Actions Reports
Chairman Young said that the July Fiscal Actions Report was submitted,
everyone should have received a copy. He asked if there were any
questions on the report. There were none.
Thomas K. Conerty moved to approve the Fiscal Actions Report. The
report was seconded by Roger Phinney and all members present voting
Item #4 - Project Review: Resolutions
Resolution 2005- Project Review Report
Maggie Stewart read and moved to approve Resolution 2005-55 which
directs that the Project Review Report be incorporated in full in the
minutes of the full Commission meeting. The motion was seconded
by Joan Robertson and all members present voted affirmatively.
The Chair explained that there are usually two resolutions for each
project, one to approve and one to deny. The reading of one does
not necessarily mean that will be the resolution voted upon, he said.
Resolution 2005- 56 - G. Randall & Cindy Hajeck, Nextel Partners
Chairman Young polled each of the Commission members and asked their
opinion of the project.
Tom Hall said that there is a question about the disturbance area being
over one acre and if in fact, it is over one acre than they would need
a permit from the Department of Environmental Conservation. He
said there is sufficient information to vote today. Tom Hall said
he recommends the approval of the permit application.
Shauna DeSantis said she is not an expert at this and wasn’t sure how
to decide. She said she doesn’t know much about groundwater and
wasn’t sure if it had changed since the rainfall in the spring.
Martin Auffredou suggested that she consider the advice of Tom Wardell
on this subject and listen to all of the information that has been
given to her.
Thomas Conerty said he has visited the site and he believes the
disturbance to be less than one acre.
John McDonald said that he agreed with Tom Hall and Tom Conerty.
He said he was ready to approve the project.
Roger Phinney said that he feels the same as John McDonald and he
believes we have enough information to make a determination today.
Maggie Stewart said she is in favor of the project. She said “I
think we need the cell tower for the people who live, work and recreate
on Lake George.”
Joan Robertson said Tom Wardell did a great job and has worked hard on
the project. She said she is in favor of the project.
Bruce Young said he agrees with Joan. He said the main issue in
his opinion is whether or not this project will satisfy the run off
requirements. He said that Tom Wardell has a pretty good idea
that this project will meet the requirements.
Tom Hall asked Tom Wardell if there is anything about this project that
makes it unique or different from the typical single family home
construction from a stormwater perspective.
Tom Wardell said that this project is different or unique because there
is less disturbance than there would be with a single family home.
Chairman Young asked if there was any further discussion. With
there being no response a motion was entertained to approve the
stormwater permit application.
Thomas K. Conerty read and moved to approve resolution 2005-56 which
was seconded by Maggie Stewart.
WHEREAS the Commission has received an application
from G. Randall & Cindy Hajeck, Nextel Partners, Inc. and
Independent Wireless One, Inc. for a stormwater management permit
pursuant to 6NYCRR 646-4 to construct a roadway, utility building, cell
phone tower and related stormwater control measures, and
WHEREAS the application was deemed complete on
January 29, 2002 and additional information was received on July 16,
2002, October 22, 2004 and August 1, 2005, and
WHEREAS the application has been the subject of
public notice and public comments have been received and reviewed by
the Commission, and
WHEREAS the project is an exempt action pursuant to
Article 8 of the Environmental Conservation Law (SEQRA), and
WHEREAS the Commission has reviewed a determination
by its engineer that the stormwater control measures that are part of
the project comply with the design specifications and standards
contained in 6NYCRR 646-4, and
WHEREAS the Commission has also reviewed a draft
permit, project plans, a draft performance and maintenance agreement;
and a draft Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law, and
WHEREAS in consideration of the foregoing
BE IT RESOLVED that the Commission hereby adopts the attached Findings
of Fact and Conclusions of Law and approves the Hajeck/Nextel Partner,
Inc./IWO, Inc. application in accordance with the attached draft
permit, project plans and performance and maintenance agreement subject
to the conditions and limitations expressed therein, and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Executive Director is authorized to
issue a stormwater management permit pursuant to 6NYCRR 646-4 for the
project and is also authorized to execute a maintenance and performance
agreement on behalf of the Commission consistent with these findings
Ayes: (8) Young, Conerty, Stewart, Robertson,
McDonald, Phinney, DeSantis, Hall
Abstentions: (1) John Pettica had to recuse himself
from the discussion and the vote.
Tom Wardell added that any changes made to the plan should be submitted
to the Lake George Park Commission.
Martin Auffredou said that, like with any application, if there are
some minor technical issues that Tom has identified that need some fine
tuning, that wouldn’t necessarily warrant Commission review
again. Mr. Auffredou said the project applicant should be making
and submitting those changes to Tom Wardell at his request.
Item #5 - Law Enforcement: Thomas K. Conerty
Mr. Conerty said that there was a Law Enforcement Committee meeting
this a.m. and called upon Lt. Schneider for his report. Tom
Conerty said the boat count was given to him today.
Lt. Schneider said that a number of enforcement issues were discussed
this morning including on-going deliberations and the continuing
problems with the Black Mountain repeater. He said he would research an
alternative approach to improve repeater areas and maintenance.
He said Black Mountain affords the Marine Patrol very good coverage of
the lake but whenever maintenance is needed it becomes a huge issue
because of the location on Black Mountain.
Lt. Schneider discussed the Park Attendant Program and the inspection
of vessels. He said that this program is on-going and a
significant number of boats have been checked. He said that this
program is widely accepted and people are stating that they know of the
problems and are happy to know that information is getting out.
Lt. Schneider said that the 2005 boat count is done and they will be
able to hand out copies to the public once the meeting is over.
Tom Conerty read and moved to approve Resolution 2005-57 which accepts
the report of the Law Enforcement Committee. The motion was
seconded by Tom Hall and all Commission members present voted
WHEREAS the Law Enforcement Committee met August 23,
2005 to review matters pertaining to the Lake George Park Commission’s
Marine Patrol and the Commission's Law Enforcement Program, and
WHEREAS active Law Enforcement cases and their status
were reviewed in Executive Session, and
WHEREAS the Law Enforcement Committee has reported on
the results of that committee meeting at this full Commission meeting,
WHEREAS the Law Enforcement Committee recommends
acceptance of this month's Law Enforcement Report.
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the Commission accepts the report of
the Law Enforcement Committee.
Item #6 - Water Quality Programs Report: J. Thomas Wardell
Tom Wardell said that the stormwater permits have picked up. He
spoke of several system failures. One of the failures was found
at a residence in Huletts Landing. A couple of other failures
were found at the Lake Crest and Marine Village Motels.
Mr. Wardell said that the lake level at Rogers Rock is 3.35. He
said it is a little low for this time of year.
Item #10 - Public Comments
The Lake George Association
Walt Lender, Executive Director of the Lake George Association,
submitted written comments and declined to speak.
The FUND for Lake George, Inc.
Chris Navitsky, Lake George Water keeper said he had no further
comments to make.
Doug Feick, resident of Ticonderoga, spoke about concerns of activists
groups pressing for a PWC ban. Mr. Feick referred to several
articles while speaking. He said that the activists claims about
PWC’s are no longer valid because noise is no longer a situation
because the technology has vastly improved regarding two-cycle and
Mr. Feick spoke of some instances when PWC’s have been able to make it
to a bad situation quicker than a boat. He spoke of a fire on a
boat and he said the people who got them off the boat were on
PWC’s. He referred to another article from Maine where they are
proposing to ban kayaks because people can’t get out of them properly.
He said he wanted to congratulate the Lake George Park Commission on a
good 2005 report. He said he has also done a small report which
was passed out to all Commission members (attached).
Mr. Feick referred to the Lake George Park Commission Marine Patrol
report. He said the Marine Patrol report shows that PWC’s account
for almost 53% of the tickets given. He said while that is true,
PWC’s do not have the same set of rules as boaters such as, safety
certificates. He said if you take away the three laws that apply
to PWC’s only than you can drop that percent down to about 21%.
He said he believes that a gray area exists with the 5 mph within 500
feet of shore rule.
Item #10 - Adjournment
There being no further business, on the motion of Tom Conerty, seconded
by Joan Robertson, all Commission members present voting affirmatively,
the meeting was adjourned at 12:15 p.m.
Keyboard Specialist 1
Secretary’s Note: The next Commission meeting is
scheduled for TUESDAY, September 20, 2005, 10:00 a.m. at the Hague Town
Hall, Route 8, Hague, NY.